<page-header>
-Apple II Forever-           BlackBeard          -No Mas-
The STATE of the APPLE ][:
PROBLEMS and PROMISE
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Page Number <page#>

PREFACE by BlackBeard

This document was distributed by Barney Stone at AppleFest - SF - 1989.

The event was an informal gathering of third-end Apple II developers.  The concept of creating an "Official" developers organization to deal with Apple Inc regarding the Apple II product line originated at the Kansas meeting.  Still in its infancy, it remains an unofficial organization with a temporary, (and well represented), board of directors.  

============================================================================
  [Barney Stone]     [Rodger Wagnor]   [Mark  Simeonson]   [Tom Weishaar]
Stone Edge S'ware   Rodger Wagnor Pub   Beagle Brothers      A2-Central
============================================================================

Those in the audience consisted of a few saggy-eyed folks who were willing to make it to Brooks Hall at 9AM Sunday, (many after crashing the inCider party the previous night), others that were exhibitors at the "Fest", and a few incognito pirates... (heh!)   However, by 10:30AM when the meeting ended, the room was full.  The absence of Apple Inc representatives in the conversations could have been anticipated after the Kansas ordeal I guess!

                                      ***

Notes: Remarks and comments indicated by <<BB>>== are those by BlackBeard and
       are not quotes from the article... Otherwise, it is entered word by
       word excluding spelling and diction errors.

       Sections that display numbers within parenthesis, (#), have remarks
       associated with them at the end of this document.

                                                               Beard

 _________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                         |
| Executive Summary:                                                      |
|                                                                         |
| We are the third-party developers and we are worried. The Apple II      |
| computer line and the income that it represents for Apple Computer      |
| Inc. is in danger.  Software and hardware developers are abandoning     |
| the Apple II, software retailers are discontinuing Apple II departments |
| and Apple II publications are closing down.                             |
|                                                                         |
| While the Apple IIGS is a great computer that should be highly          |
| competitive against low and middle level PC's, it is suffering from     |
| neglect by Apple's management and from extremely limited marketing.     |
|                                                                         |
| If Apple would establish a separate division to develop and aggressively|
| market Apple II products, re-establishing their reputation as the       |
| excellent general-purpose computers that they are, we believe that the  |
| Apple II could make major inroads into market segments that have been   |
| lost over the years to MS-DOS based systems.                            |
|                                                                         |
| Without such an effort, the Apple II will soon fall below the           |
| "Critical Mass" of third party supporters that are needed to keep any   |
| personal computer line healthy.                                         |
|_________________________________________________________________________|

The Bad News

The "computer that wouldn't die" is seriously ill.  The imminent death of the Apple II has been predicted regularly almost since it's introduction nearly ten years ago.  Those predictions ignored the depth of support that the Apple II enjoyed within it's installed base and from third party developers, users groups, magazines and educators.  Today the Apple II continues to generate nearly $1 billion in annual sales for Apple Computer Inc.(1)

Unfortunately, third-party support for the Apple II has eroded substantially. We're down to two monthly magazines (inCider and Nibble), both of which appear to shrink from month to month.  The number of Apple II software publishers keeps dropping meaning fewer titles that run on the Apple II, fewer magazines, fewer advertisers that support the magazines and lower visibility for the Apple II.  More and more Apple User Groups are treating the Apple II as a poor step-child.  Apple dealers neglect the Apple II in favor of Mac's and PC-Clones.  Computer columnists ignore the Apple II completely and there's a growing sense of panic among Apple II developers, publishers and resellers.

<<BB>>===========================<Start>===============================<<BB>>

      It was generally agreed upon that a great deal of the Apple II
      problems originated from this area... 

      The so-called "Official Apple Dealer/Reps" to which Apple held
      in angelic esteem were also the bearers of MS-DOS machines. They're
      general attitude was to sell them first and get the biggest end of
      the sales commission...

   (We're talking $5,000 MS-DOS systems instead of $1,500 Apple ][ systems)

      How many of those reading this article have ever walked into an
      "OFFICIAL APPLE REPRESENTATIVES" showroom and upon asking about the
      GS were given the response of, "What's a GS?"  Or have you gone into
      their repair sections to get a power supply or chip replaced and left
      with a triumphant grin on your face. YOU knew more about the Apple II
      internals than the so-called trained and skilled technician did...
                                    ha - ha - ha!
      Not funny because you had to leave your computer there two days to get
      a 256k SIMS replaced on your memory card!

<<BB>>============================<End>================================<<BB>>

Meanwhile, the vaunted strength of the Apple II system in education is endangered as more and more schools opt for MS-DOS computers.  (True, some schools switch to Macintosh's but we suspect that many more turn to MS-DOS.)

Confidence in the future of the Apple II is at an all time low.  Rumors abound that the Apple II line will be dropped driving potential buyers away for fear of obsolescence.  Apple does little to stop the rumors and actually aggravates the problem by dropping contradictory hints about future low-end Macintosh's.

While the cost of developing Apple II software has risen substantially due to the added complexity of the graphic interface, availability of development funds has all but dried up.  This, combined with the continued overwhelming dominance of Claris, AppleWorks and AppleWorks GS means that few if any major new software products will be forthcoming.  That, of course, means less excitement in the Apple II community, even fewer advertisers for the remaining magazines and a self-perpetuating cycle that can only end with the death of the Apple II product line.

WHAT WENT WRONG???

What is happening to the Apple II?  Is it losing out to more advanced systems?  Is there something basically wrong with or lacking in its technology?  Are third-party developers abandoning it because they don't like it anymore?  Are the people who spend a billion dollars a year on Apple II's making a big mistake?

Is the Apple II like a bright child from the wrong neighborhood?  Is it like an experienced worker facing mandatory retirement?  Or is it simply a victim of limited expectations?

The bottom line:  Can Apple II revenues grow two, three or more times the
                  current levels? ... or ...

                  Should we expect its contribution to Apple's bottom line
                  to fade away over the next two or three years?

Obviously, we believe there is a lot of life (and profit) in the Apple II line but not if things keep going the way that they are now.  The problems can be divided into five PRIMARY categories:

     [1]            "BLINDED BY THE LIGHT"
     [2]            "MISSING TARGETS"
     [3]            "THE POOR STEPCHILD SYNDROME"
     [4]            "GENTRIFICATION: WE ARE NOT MACINTOSH DEVELOPERS!"
     [5]            "WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE ANYWAY?"
Item Number [1]
 "BLINDED BY THE LIGHT"

All of the problems with the Apple II stem from the fact that Apple, as a company, is so involved with its Macintosh Computers that it can't understand why anyone would want to have an Apple II...

Apple simply does not believe in the Apple II anymore!"
(Perhaps they never did... See "Missing Targets!"

Please note that this is NOT TRUE of the engineers and programmers who created the Apple IIGS and GS/OS.  They obviously understand the potential of the Apple II and are working to achieve it.  The statement holds clearly true though of Apples entire marketing organization.

<<BB>>===========================<Start>===============================<<BB>>

     This is one of the unknown variables... It could well be possible
     that this was done by Apple in an effort to pacify the II community!

     Another concept is the infamous BlackBeard idea...
     I, as an individual, still believe that the GS was stumbled upon in 
     the course of Apple's research for the Mac... The front office had a
     paranoiac fear of two Mac co-processors and viola.. Enter the IIGS!

     If my contention is correct, applaud Apple for selling 600,000+ GS's
     and still counting, as a fringe benefit. This does not detract from
     the overall reality that the GS is indeed an awe-inspiring, 8/16 bit
     masterpiece that Apple, as a profit seeking corporation, should bend
     over backward to exploit.  It's kind of like finding a $20 bill on the
     sidewalk.  Do you pick it up and use it or ignore it and continue on to
     your destination?

<<BB>>============================<End>================================<<BB>>

OK! Perhaps the Apple II isn't "insanely great" like the Macintosh.  Let's see where the Apple IIGS fits on the personal computer scale:

In the early days of the Apple II, it competed with 64k CP/M computers, the recognized "business computer systems" then... The GS is substantially better than those systems... Bigger, faster-friendlier - clearly a much better computer... That was a long time ago.  What about todays business computers?  If you add them all up, there are more PC-XT/AT clones being sold today than any other system.  How would you compare the Apple IIGS to those systems? 

Bigger?  You bet!  Faster?  Maybe... maybe not! depends on what you're doing. Friendlier?  Absolutely!  (ProDOS 8 is friendlier. GS/OS is downright loving!)  If you want to use a Mac style mouse and graphics interface on your computer, the GS beats the PC/XT/AT hands down for both price and performance.  So if the flagship for the Apple II, (the GS), is as good as or better than most of the personal computers being sold today, why won't Apple market them to business and professional users?

This is an excerpt from Apple's 1988 Annual report...

"Though we think of Apple II computers primarily in relation to schools, we found that many small businesses and families are also buying the GS because of it's all-around strengths as a computer.  Not only can the GS run more educational software than any other personal computer, it can also run general productivity software - everything from word processing and home finance to small business accounting."

That's been true of the entire Apple II line from the beginning.   Why was it suddenly discovered in 1988?  What is Apple going to do to take advantage of it?  We've actually had Apple employees tell us that Apple, as a company, does not know how to sell the Apple II... They can't understand why anyone would want one when the Macintosh is so much better!

APPLE'S VISION OF THE MACINTOSH KEEPS THEM FROM SEEING THAT THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL MARKET FOR THE IIGS AS A LOW-END OR ENTRY-LEVEL BUSINESS COMPUTER.

Item Number [2]
 MISSING TARGETS

Of all the personal computers that have come and gone since the days of Imsai and Altair, [none] have survived without a substantial market among business and productivity users. <This is a basic lesson of personal computer history which Apple insists on ignoring!>  In fact, from the earliest days of the Apple II, Apple as a company did not understand that people bought Apple II's for business and professional use.  Apple rarely targeted its advertisements at those markets.  (That's why it took so long to get an 80 column display and a working shift key for the computer.  Not to mention a good, reasonably priced hard disk that Apple still does not offer for the Apple II.)  

It was third-party developers who made the Apple II a success by providing the software and hardware that made it a productive tool instead of just another expensive toy.  But at least Apple Inc did market the Apple II aggressively back then, even if it was never quite clear from their marketing just what people could, would, or should do with them.

<<BB>>===========================<Start>==============================<<BB>>

     There are those that have additional {REAL} information...

     As far as the ][+/e is concerned, it was the original and greatest
     thing to happen to the adolescent computing world... Here was a
     (gasp!) "computer" that sat on your desk and let you could peek and
     poke at memory locations and enter direct commands to the systems
     monitor in the machines native language... WOW!  We even invented
     ways to transfer software programs over the telephone lines.  What
     ta hell... at 300 baud we got an entire program, (on a 5-1/4), in no
     more than an hour tops!  One guy even wrote telecom software that
     emulated 1200 baud on our 300 baud modems. (Right all you old timers?)
     Those that possessed Apple II computers were the elite of the modem
     world... And of those, only the VERY elite were admitted to specific
     BBS's where the latest available software was sent [FIRST]...
     Ask Steve Wozniac about the importance of the Pirate in the success
     of the Apple II...

<<BB>>============================<End>==============================<<BB>>

Today, with an almost complete lack of Apple produced advertising for the Apple II and a total absence of business and productivity targeted marketing, the only people supporting the Apple II as a productivity computer are the remaining hardware and business software producers.

Item Number [3]
POOR STEPCHILD SYNDROME

Can you imagine a salesperson selling tuxedos and t-shirts?  Or BMW's and Hyundais? 

<<BB>>=== For a further and better defined distinction let's say, Sears
          or Macy's selling Reeboks in the dress suit section.  Might be
          OK as far as you and I are concerned but in the corporate world
          that's just not kosher! ===<<BB>>

That's the way Apple's marketing department works.  One marketing department for the Apple II and the Macintosh.  Apple II magazines and bulletin boards are full of stories of Apple employees discouraging the sales of Apple II's and telling developers that they should be working on Macintosh software instead of Apple II products.

It's no wonder the Apple II gets little marketing support when most of the excitement and action are in the Mac line.  There are only so many dollars in an advertising budget, only so many hours in a day and so many minutes that you can spend with each retailer.  It's only natural that you spend your time and money where it's easy and exciting.

THAT WON'T KEEP THE APPLE II ALIVE!

Apple spends between 20 and 25% of it's gross receipts on marketing and distribution.(2)  Thus if spending on the two product lines is in proportion to the revenues that they generate, Apple should be spending in the area of $250,000,000.000, (2Hundred and fifty million), per year on marketing and distributing the Apple II.  Simply put, for every three or four Mac ads you see there should be at least one for the Apple II.  This is not the case so we must therefore assume that the money generated by the Apple II is being spent to promote the Macintosh.. <<BB>>== or some heavy pockets ==<<BB>>  This may have been appropriate in the early days of the Mac but it does not seem fair or even reasonable at this period in Apple's history.  

Then there's engineering.  While Apple introduces a steady parade of one new Macintosh after another, the GS gets only a minor incremental upgrade.  While the Mac gets faster and faster processors, the GS has to depend upon speed improvements in it's operating system and expensive third-party accelerators. Where the Macintosh has a built-in SCSI port, the GS requires an add-on card. Is a hard disk any less necessary for an Apple II running a Mac-like interface than it is for the Mac itself?  We can understand the need for Apple to devote the majority of its engineering efforts to its main product line but a few engineering improvements would go a long way in keeping the Apple II alive.

Item Number [4]
GENTRIFICATION

We are not Macintosh Developers!

Apple II developers tend to have very small companies.  Most can't even afford to attend expensive conferences.  Neither can we afford sending people on regular pilgrimages to Cupertino.  We don't have the time or the patience to deal with a lot of superfluous paperwork.  Our companies are smaller, less well financed, generally less profitable and have smaller potential markets than typical Macintosh development companies.  We can't afford to support an organization that's supposed to be supporting us yet spends the vast bulk of it's time, money and human resources on the Macintosh.  Yet Apple now wants to treat us the same as Macintosh third-party developers (with the info they submit to us!).  This makes it harder for us to work with Apple, harder to develop more products, harder to keep the Apple II alive and harder to support Apple's bottom line.

Item Number [5]
WHO's IN CHARGE

OK... the Apple II generates 20 to 25% of Apple's gross revenues, yet there does not appear to be anyone in the middle or upper level of Apple management who is in charge of the Apple II, and has no Macintosh responsibilities.  That means that virtually... every level of management decisions about the Apple II are weighed in a relational proportion to the Macintosh.  If the same were true at IBM, they would never have introduced the PC in the first place.... after all, who in their right mind would buy a PC when they could have a mini-computer?  For that matter, shouldn't everyone have a mainframe?

With no one in the drivers seat, it's not surprising that Apple executives are surprised at the continued vigor of the Apple II market when they take time to attend an AppleFest show and really listen to what the Apple II users or developers have to say.  It's also not surprising that there is so little two-way communication between Apple and the third-party Apple II development community.  Nor is it surprising to see third party developers frustrated, angry and scared!

[Who ever heard of a billion dollar a year business with no one in charge?]

THE GOOD NEWS - FINALLY!

Just as the Volkswagon Beetle, the rotary phone and the DC-3, the Apple II has survived far longer than its expected lifetime because it is a simple, inexpensive, reliable and powerful tool.  AND... It keeps getting better.  Apple has made it faster, given it better disk drives, increased its RAM and ROM capacity and given it a proven graphic interface.  Third party hardware developers have provided it with hard disks, caching disk controllers and accelerators.  Software publishers have brought it integrated solutions, a HyperCard work-alike and many other items satisfactory for luring business and productive parties into the Apple II scheme.

Apple's educational presence continues to be an important factor in keeping the Apple II alive and introducing America's next generation of computer scientists to software and hardware concepts.  (What other machine lets it so easy for a budding engineer to dig into the machine at a "bit by byte" level and find out how a computer really works...?  
                   <<BB>>=== Challenge to Amiga ===<<BB>>
More important, the market for entry-level computers for small businesses and home office workers is tremendous.

...  The Small Business Administration reports that of the 4 million small businesses in the U.S., only 25% use personal computers.  More than half of the remaining 75% plan to use small computers in the next few years.(3)

...  There is a booming market in the Home-Office workers.  According to a survey by the Home Office Business Association, "about 27 million people - almost a third of the entire U.S labor force - are working full or part time in their homes and 21% of the home-office workers expect to buy a personal computer in the coming year."(4)  Other reports estimate that only 30% home office workers are currently computerized.

     Many of those small business and home office workers will purchase MS-DOS based computers <<BB>>=== office compatibility ===<<BB>> but in many ways the Apple IIGS would be a far better choice:

 o - The GS is easier to learn and use which is important because the
     smaller the company the less time the buyer has to learn how to use it.

 o - While low-end MS-DOS clones appear to be less in price than the GS, the
     the higher cost f MS-DOS software and and longer learning time tend
     to eliminate that advantage.  If you want a graphic interface for the 
     MS-DOS machine, the additional costs of more memory, accelerator, mouse
     and operating system that are required make the GS a far better bargain.

 o - Finally, the GS is a better computer for the kids of the house to use
     after hours since they probably use Apple II's in school.

THE SMALL BUSINESS and HOME-OFFICE MARKETS PRESENT A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY for the APPLE II TO TAKE MARKET SHARE AWAY FROM MS-DOS COMPUTERS WITH A MINIMAL IMPACT ON MACINTOSH SALES... MOST HOME-OFFICE and SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS DO NOT REQUIRE THE COMPUTING POWER OF A MACINTOSH...

THE RISK

If Apple continues to neglect the Apple II market and relegate it to an extremely limited market, third party support for it will drop below the "critical mass" of developers necessary to maintain the health of the 
Apple II product line... As a result, sales of the Apple II will drop off rapidly with a devastating impact on Apple Computer Inc's bottom line.

WHAT MUST BE DONE?

     [1]  Put someone in charge!

One individual must be responsible for the Apple II product line.  When the president of the largest manufacturer of Apple II add-on products tried to reach John Sculley recently, he could not even get a call back from Mr. Sculley's office.  Another manufacturer unable to get a reasonable level of technical support and had no one to report the problem to.  Too many third level developers have given up trying to communicate with Apple Inc.

We have heard from Mr Sculley and others that the problems with the Apple II line will be addressed, but nothing ever happens.  We never hear from anyone. Clearly, the Apple II is suffering from the lack of a:

"HIGH LEVEL CHAMPION WITHIN THE APPLE ORGANIZATION"

We need someone who is responsible for making Apple II forever a reality.  That person has to be responsible for making the best Apple II products possible, marketing them to any market that makes sense and gathering as much profit as possible for Apple Computer Inc...

     [2]  SEPARATE THE MARKETING DEPARTMENTS

As a billion dollar a year product line, the Apple II line deserves it's own marketing organization, its own marketing staff within Apple, its own marketing budget, its own advertising agency and its own sales reps.

Follow the examples of Proctor and Gamble, General Motors and even some of the soft drink companies.  All manage to sell competing products product lines without artificially limiting their markets.

If no one at Apple or its advertising agencies can figure out how to market the Apple II in a world that also includes the Macintosh, have them ask the Apple II users and third party developers!  The answer is simple... Forget about associating the Apple II with the Mac and sell the Apple II for the great computer that it is.  Sell it against the low-end MS-DOS computers that are it's real competition.  Sell it as the best and most economical entry level computer for small businesses and home offices.  

        Let someone ELSE at Apple worry about selling the Macintosh!

     [3] ACCELERATE HARDWARE DEVELOPMENT

As a small business computer, the Apple IIGS hardware has three primary deficiencies, all of which could and should, be addressed as soon as possible:

  o - a faster processor
  o - faster access to floppy disks
  o - a built-in SCSI controller to reduce the cost of adding a hard disk.

Those improvements, especially if they did not involve a retail price increase, would make the GS even more competitive with MS-DOS based computers. Any other improvements ie: improved sound and graphics would be icing on the cake.

     [4] IMPROVE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT

To rebuild the confidence and interest of third party developers in writing Apple II software, the Apple II needs it's own support organization, separate from the Macintosh evangelists and technical support staff.  The needs of the developers and the potential markets of the two systems are simple two different to be effectively addressed by the same staff.  For example, where the Macintosh needs evangelists to encourage the development of new technologies, the Apple II needs evangelists to convince developers and publishers to come back to the Apple II market.

Also, since the costs and risks of developing software for the Apple II is higher now, Apple Inc should consider ways of encouraging developers financially...  Some suggestions could be seed money, (whew!) loans or co-marketing agreements.  Even the promise to buy bulk copies of worthwhile new programs for distribution to Apple Community Grant organizations.  The extent of the support at this time isn't relevant. What is required is a REAL, HIGHLY VISIBLE and MEANINGFUL COMMITMENT to re-building the Apple II software industry.

If Apple were to commit just one-half of one percent of the years gross revenues from the Apple II to funding software development, they could produce a flood of innovative software that would clearly establish the Apple IIGS not as just a "Slightly better Apple II" but a computer with the technology to carry it through the 90's and beyond.

     [5] SUMMARY: DIVIDE AND CONQUER

All of the above would would come naturally if Apple would move quickly to create a separate division to produce and market the Apple II products: a division with its own president, its own R&D and its own marketing and support departments with their own budgets.  It should be treated as an independent profit center from within the Apple organization.  Then, and only then, will Apple Computer be able to deliver on its Apple II forever promise.

If Apple would would only recognize and exploit the potential of its own product, the company would find itself in the enviable position of "owning" two corners of a triad computer market with GSOS becoming the third standard operating system for small business computer users.  The Apple II would contribute a growing share to Apples sales for years to come and the natural synergism between the Apple GS and the Macintosh would provide fertile selling ground for larger, more powerful systems in the future.  Macintosh and future Apple systems would capture many sales that otherwise would go to OS/2 systems... The opportunity is there for the taking and Apple's third party developers are ready to back the Apple II to the hilt.

                        BUT WE CAN'T DO IT ALONE!

(1)  Jonathon Eder, Apple Computer, at A2-Central Developers Conf - 7/21/89
(2)  1988 Annual Report and 1989 1stand 2nd Quarter reports.
(3)  Computer Reseller News, 12/12/1988
(4)  Computer Reseller News, 12/21/1988

-=[ BLACKBEARD'S  SUMMARY! ]=-

     I sat thru this entire meeting and listened to all of the conversations, remarks and statements.  Being somewhat in a position to be on the proverbial fence as a mini-developer and dedicated pirate, on occasion I added my own two cents worth of conversation into the flow.

     I personally made a motion that the Organization establish it's first cause of action as getting Apple Inc to construct an Apple ][ division.  (Hadn't read Barney's article.  It was distributed after the meeting.)  They responded that they didn't wanna tell Apple what to do with their company and it would seem a bit forceful...  Now, AFTER, reading his article and getting some statistical info, I would be inclined to believe that they could, and SHOULD,  "DEMAND"  that Apple start an Apple ][ division.  If the Apple II is producing a billion dollars a year in Apple revenue, then that's one hellof a tool to use for negotiations...

THIS IS THE WORD OF THE BEARD:
It was apparent to me that the Developers Association intends to attempt negotiating with Apple Inc and REQUESTING that they CONSIDER some of the organizations proposals.

===========================================================================
"If an organization, comprised of premier Apple II developers, threaten to  hasten the Apple II's demise by boycotting development of anything for it until there is highly visable support stemming from Cupertino, Apple Inc will listen to that!"
============================================================================

Dosen't matter how much they're into their saintly Mac, if you threaten to remove a billion dollars a year from their corporate pocketbook, they're going to listen to you and if they don't the stockholders will!

***

At mention of the ][e, they were staidly silent and had NO remarks at all... This kinda pissd me off cuz it's tounge in cheek!  They seem to have resigned themselves to the idea that the Apple II is now re-defined as the Aple IIgs.  My statement to them was to count the number of ][e's in peoples homes and in schools and make a comparison with the number of ][gs's...  What I did get them to reveal is that a couple months ago the Apple ][ line reached the 5 million in sales mark... (Entire ][ line from the ][+ to the ][gs!)  OK, now of those 5 million sold, approximately 600,000 of them are GS's...  It was kinda encouraging to me that they didn't say the GS was a superior machine though...  I would have told them that so is the Mac and to go phuck themselves and at that moment I would have left the room!

In reality, if Apple would have stuck the faster processor into the ][e instead of that ][c+ piece of shit, things might have been changed quite a bit.  Why did they think people would buy the ][c+?  The reason for the ][c selling so poorly to begin with was cuz of it's closed nomenclature.. It's no where near the having the flexibility of the ][e... which is one of the reasons people hogged up the ][e... (Thus exit Jobs and enter Sculley!)... Now maybe the concensus at Apple Inc is:

Hey Duudz...!  WE did what we could for the Apple II & people didn't want it, buy it or appreciate it so why should we continue pursuing a losing effort?

Whatta crock of Bullshit! The idiots improved upon the wrong machine. If they would have done it for either the ][e or the ][gs it would have made a world of difference...  Bad preliminary planning and evaluations made at Apple Inc on that one but water over the dam now!  Fact is that they can still do it though, if not for the ][gs then for the ][e...  Seems to me that the bottom line here is to get the public aware and alert that the Apple II is still in existance and that Apple Inc is supporting and promoting it.  Also, if there is to be an Apple II Division at Apple Inc, why not have high and low-end Apple II's ie: GS and ][e?   A ][e which runs faster than a GS without the computing power of the GS and other luxury items seems like it may be just what the home-office prospect may be looking for.